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It’s Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee with Judith Rafferty, Fruition Ventures (ep. 7)
Who is Judith?
Creative commercially astute Copywriter helping businesses get seen, known & booked! My copywriting track record is for value rich, income generating content creation that boosts awareness, engagement, sales, sign-ups, and visibility. During the past ten years, I’ve significantly evolved my copywriting services, for one-off jobs and regular retainers, as a freelancer, or an agency sub-contractor. My key competencies are – A proven ability to write persuasive copy designed to sell, grounded in years of frontline sales experience. Excellent writing skills. Accuracy and an eye for detail. Ability to write concise and engaging copy to tight deadlines. Experience of optimising copy to deliver maximum conversions. I’m proud of the work – and results – I’ve created for a broad array of clients across diverse business sectors. From professional services (accountancy, insurance, legal) to Hatton Garden diamond jewellers, HR to Halloween fancy dress, restaurants to rug wholesalers!
Key Takeaways
- Two tools to help you be a better copywriter : answer the public and co-schedule
- A great book on content DNA
- A tool to help your content be more readable
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Judith has a special offer – blogoff – buy one blog, get one free. Contact Judith for more detailsLearn More about Judith at https://www.linkedin.com/in/judith-rafferty/
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
Stuart Webb 0:42
Hi and welcome again to the it’s not rocket science five questions over coffee. I’m here today with Judith Rafferty Judith is a creative copywriter commercially astute and she’s helping businesses get seen known and booked a track record is a value rich income generating content creation that boosts awareness engagement sales signups visibility, I’m hoping we’re gonna get into a lot of that during today’s chat. During the past 10 years she significantly evolved copywriting services for one off jobs and regular retainers. So as a as a freelancer or an agency subcontractor, she’s been doing quite a lot of work around there. She’s got a real proven ability to actually generate prok copy that sells and, and it’s well grounded in well experienced in tight deadlines, optimising that copy to deliver maximum conversion. So, from for a real professional talk. I think you’re gonna love today’s talk, Judith, welcome to it’s not rocket science. five questions over coffee. Good morning. Good to see you stay with. You’ve got your coffee ready? I’ve got my coffee at the ready. Brilliant. So let’s leap in with my first and my question. So what’s the biggest challenge you find your ideal client has or faces when the when you come across the
Judith Rafferty 2:08
app, I’m good. I’m going to sort of intermingle three three into a head.
Stuart Webb 2:15
intermingling,
Judith Rafferty 2:16
generally the time the in house skills, the inclination, or a mixture of all three, to try to spend that time on concept generation and to do it well. Because that let’s be honest, you know, you’re, you know, we’re a marketing expert, you’re you’ve written books on marketing, and we all know it’s quite can be quite punishing for the small business owner. But you know, it’s that hamster wheel. And certainly, if business owners don’t have the inclination, towards sitting there writing blogs and things, you know, it can be a real black hole comes into a hamster wheel that they really struggle with. And it’s such a shame because because of course, they should be spending their time shining their unique brilliant from the world, rather than getting headaches over writing about their own business, which they really didn’t set up their businesses to do in the first place.
Stuart Webb 3:09
I often say Judith, certainly to my clients that they will very often take the path of what I call the least assistance, partly because they think well nobody can possibly know this as good as me that that may be true. But the fact of the matter is, they’re skilled that if they were a skilled copywriter, they’d be a copywriter they wouldn’t be doing the business they’re doing so why not find the person that actually knows how to do it better than you and get them to help you do it?
Judith Rafferty 3:35
Yeah, and then of course you will what you find you know, when they you know that they do have that that attitude and you know that they put together copies of it isn’t engaging and another huge beef of mine and and the copywriting circle in general is they write for themselves and not for their target audience
Stuart Webb 3:55
that that’s really what it was brings me on to the second question, though. So what’s the common mistake people make when they are trying to resolve the problem of writing their own copy rather than sort of getting the help they need? And it’s around that they’re writing what they know rather than what their customer wants to know I guess
Judith Rafferty 4:13
yeah, so they’re just really not you know, lots of we are we are and we set up and we won this award and we do this and we do that and it’s it’s not sort of directly hitting those pain points of of the clients I was you know, it’s just really not a load of information that so you know, I think we all the small business owners after get our heads around Yes, of course you know, it’s nice to have a bit of background information but so much all’s we do party really cares? Yeah, mums and dads my but you know when thing cool, yeah, that website looks great. Well done some but you know, that’s about as good as it gets really
Stuart Webb 4:57
interesting.
Judith Rafferty 4:58
Your gun and You know, in accessible language me, you know, we can all go, you know, we can all be guilty of thinking, Oh, you know that this sounds a bit smart and clever and no, it’s just not resonating with anybody, because you’re writing it for yourself and not for the reader.
Stuart Webb 5:17
That’s really interesting, you put it like that Judith, and I think there’s some couple of things in there that we could unpack for hours. But let’s not try and do it for hours. But I mean, the two that really strike me is one of which is the thing that you just said is, they’re writing for themselves. And we could talk about the difference between, you know, writing so that you can get your message across to somebody so that they hear it, I often say to people, communication is actually what the listener does, or the reader does, it’s not what you do. So you might think you’ve communicated, because you put down what you understand. But unless the reader is understood it, you’ve communicated nothing. So oftentimes, people forget that what they tried to do is communicate, they forget that what they’re trying to do is send a message that somebody else can understand the catch, they can act upon. And that’s a really crucial point of a web page, or whatever you’re writing. But the other thing that’s really crucial about all of this, of course, is that even if you’ve managed to get your message across, you have got to sort of, you’ve got to get them motivated to take action upon it. And so often when you when you when you read something, unless you’re motivated by this, you’re grasping and getting the emotions, it’s just a piece of it’s just a piece of reading. You’re not you’re not drawn in, are you?
Judith Rafferty 6:30
Yeah, and of course, you know, you know, with what you’ve just said to what you’ve just led straight into another thing that that small businesses can be very guilty of the clear call to action. You know, what? text, text text, you know, big chunks of, of nasty copy all over the place? And not actually what do you want them to? What do you want people to do? Do you want them to pick up the phone? Do you want them to fill in this box with the email details? You know, do you want them to arrange an appointment with you? What do you want from them? Now that you’ve given them all this information?
Stuart Webb 7:06
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was only talking about this on Thursday, actually, with a client when we were talking about the fact that, you know, the, the the two things that he was trying to get into his copy that he was failing to do, and he was himself doing it. And I kept saying things like, you sure this is the right way of doing it. He was doing two things. And you’ve mentioned there, he included lots and lots of awards. And I went That’s great. That’s that’s great social proof that you have managed to achieve something other people might be interested in. But unless they understand what those awards are, they don’t actually convince convince anybody. They’re just, you know, well, that’s an award. So what you’ve got to explain to people that that award is a really prestigious award. So you’ve got to put that in such a way that people understand it. And the second one is you said, he failed to put in a call to action, I said, you really got to do four things with your spiel call to action, which he failed to do. He hadn’t summarised his offer, he really hadn’t told them and given them multiple ways of actually contacting him. He hadn’t given them a compelling reason why they should. And he hadn’t explained what was happening next. And I said, Unless you explain all of those and your call to action, you know, fill in this box, and then we’ll come back to you within 24 hours, people would think, oh, okay, well, I don’t have to do it now. And he hadn’t given them a really compelling reason that so does they do this. And then this is what will happen and summarise what they were trying to do. And he was failing to sort of get across and, you know, the skill of doing all of that is actually embedded in somebody like you, where you’ve been doing it for a while, and you know, exactly how to make that work. I can’t say any more for you. I’m sorry, let me let me move back onto my pedestal and allow you to sort of get on and sort of do that. So yeah, you so many times, I think people fail to sort of capitalise on what they’re good at which is doing their thing, pleasing their customers making their their products and leaving you to do the job of helping them to explain to the world what it is that the benefit is about the the product to service.
Judith Rafferty 9:14
Absolutely. You know, and and of course that, you know, that’s where someone like yourself, of course got, you know, comes into your own as you know, as a growth expert, you know, which, which I’m sure, you know, I was gonna say I’m sure you could write books that you want you have about businesses working on their business and in their business. You know, why isn’t it for the small business
Stuart Webb 9:36
is? It is it absolutely is. Okay, take what we’ll move on to question three before we spend much longer sort of picking apart the wonders of why it is none of us are sort of getting our copy as well as getting it right as we might. So what’s a valuable free action or free resource that you’d like to sort of point the audience towards to get them to sort of understand better how they could get get their copywriting moving
Judith Rafferty 10:00
Well, I often get people asking me, what we get stuck with what we don’t know what to write about. So you know what they’re thinking about doing blogs for their websites, for example, which is such a hard working little piece of kittens in in multiple ways. At a site that a free free site, the free tool that I recommend them to is, is called arms for the public. And you literally go on to go on to the website, answer the public, if, for example, you worked in a cafe, you can type in coffee as the as your keyword, and it will literally bring you up 100 200 of the most commonly asked questions that the public ask about coffee. And there you have it, a great big list that can keep you going for the next couple of years of themes and topics for your social media post writing, or your blog post writing, or your frequently asked questions or whatever you want to do with it. So that’s answer the public, it’s on to the public.
Stuart Webb 11:16
Brilliant, I should be making a note of that want to go into immediately after this joke? Is there anything else at
Judith Rafferty 11:23
this a future day? What does it there’s a few different Good, good tools like that online? Another one, that’s quite quite a nice one is co shedule. But that is a headline tool that got made headlines, a huge one
Stuart Webb 11:40
topic, we could spend hours just on headline,
Judith Rafferty 11:42
but yeah, I could spend today just talking about headlines. But that will literally rate your headline, and tell you know, that’s not a good word, or, you know, you’re being passive rather than active. So was there so they’re both really good ones, you know, marking for themselves to work on.
Stuart Webb 12:06
I will I will be looking both of those up, I should make a note of them. Now. I should be looking at both of those later on today. So having said that, and I’m milking you for information, I’ll let you finish a coffee whilst it was that I was asked the next question. So what’s the concept or books that you’ve come across, which has enabled you to sort of get most excited about some of this
Judith Rafferty 12:31
I’ve got one of each actually. And this is a wonderful contacts of mine on on LinkedIn, a gentleman called called john esperion, who is pretty much sort of recognised as one of the world thought leaders, I don’t think it would be yet be an understatement to what to call them in the field of LinkedIn. At MIT, he’s a wonderful, wonderful gentleman very helpful I would seriously recommend everybody who is always looking to up their social media game connect with him on LinkedIn, there really is Gianna spherion and his book is content DNA. And to me it’s it was such an inspiring greed for me. It literally is it is a step by step guide your 101 Guide to what to have in your online presence as a small business and business person establishing your online presence and then you know growing eaten and upping your game as you get more confident so but literally that step by step you know what to do what to see a clear of like the plague in really, you know, sort of readable actionable chapters I
Stuart Webb 13:54
should be I should we contact him immediately after this Judas save he’s interested in doing another one of these with with with with us.
Judith Rafferty 14:01
Oh, gosh, I’m sure you have at least you know he’s very high profile in there. And he being an awesome guest for you to have on.
Stuart Webb 14:12
And is there as you mentioned, that’s the book you said there was a concept as well what’s the concept concept
Judith Rafferty 14:18
which is one of the most simple most sort of proven copywriting 101 concepts is as simple as this and it features tail benefits self
Stuart Webb 14:32
Oh, I love that.
Judith Rafferty 14:35
I mean how you did you know it was a concept that you know has been familiar to me for a long time. I did a new conversion copywriting course last summer when when everything was really in the doldrums of, of deep lock down at an American course. And it was something that was just iterated all the way through which at which I really enjoyed, you know, going back to those basics You know, it was applying it to your headlines that are getting headlines. And you know, the way that you structure your copy you were, you know, with the funkiness, that you include, you know, in your various subheadings and things.
Stuart Webb 15:14
So to boil it down for, for the small business owner that’s looking at this, the idea is that you actually talk about your benefits to the to your potential audiences that the benefits is what they want to hear about the fact that somebody has once put it to me a hammer, a hammer can be made of metal, but that’s not the point, the hammer puts the nail in the wall. And if you want to know in in the wall, you want to know how well the hammer does that?
Absolutely, absolutely. So it’s like, you know, those, you know, when we actually think you know, what we’ve seen in real life, you know, it would be something like for example, that miracle cream, you know, that has finally harness the secret of, of eternal youth, you know, that you would get smoother, younger looking skin without going on to the knife.
It’s a Monday morning, I’ll actually excuse Oh, so young as I want to do. So I’ll go I’ll go look up that cream as well. Once we finished, you know,
Judith Rafferty 16:17
capsulated perfectly we’re without even talking about you know, well what the you know, the cream is called and you know, it contains x y Zed. It’s just sold the dream.
Stuart Webb 16:29
Right? Absolutely. Right. Brilliant. So, tell me, is there a question that I should have asked you which I failed to ask so far.
Judith Rafferty 16:39
Quick refer to by Yes, there was in taking something there forever, which was basically when then when people are having a go with to writing for themselves, you know, whether whether they’re pretty good or, or whether that intrepidly taking the first steps is that one tip that I would give that can that can really help them sort the wheat out from the chaff so to speak. And I would say that that tip would be, try to read out loud what you have written,
Stuart Webb 17:10
great, if
Judith Rafferty 17:12
you feel silly meeting, just read it out loud in your head, you know, rather than actually specific. And if it feels normal and natural to you, and if I would say yes, sitting here now having this conversation with you, then that’s fine. If you know if it’s all jargon I used and peppered with words that you wouldn’t usually use in your everyday conversational voice, that that’s when you know, we know it, you know, because it’s not sounding natural, and conversational. And if it isn’t sounding natural and conversational, it’s not going to be accessible and engaging for the person that’s reading it.
Stuart Webb 17:55
does this apply as well? And I’m sorry, that we’re sort of going off a bit. But does and that’s great for a sales letter. But does that does that apply on web pages when you’ve got to worry about the SEO element? I mean, how, how do you overcome that when it comes to writing a web page, where people say you got to keep repeating the same word because Google likes to see the same word? How do you work that into a conversational style?
Judith Rafferty 18:19
Yeah, it can be it can be a bit difficult sometimes, you know, yes, of course, with with SEO, and also blog writing is exactly the same. And the certain points of course, where you need to, you know, in your headline in your first sentence, office paragraph, ideally, in your so padding, your first so padding at least, and then peppered throughout the course of of the piece of text that you’re writing. So yeah, it’s just you know, that that’s a great a great example of why you reading out loud, but I’ve done it many times, you know, when I when I’ve been getting a bit stuck, to be honest, you know, for for including the SEO, SEO keywords or phrases, because of course, in those cases, you do have to gratify you Google as much as you have to grasp the value the the reader, so what so that’s a prime example of when reading out loud, you know, either physically or in your head, makes you stop and know that that one is just too forced, when I’ve actually read it out loud. That one sounds quite hideous, in fact, so I’m going to have to take that out and find somewhere else to to weave it in more naturally.
Stuart Webb 19:33
You know, I’ve written that down because I think that is a great tip Judas, I’m gonna I’m going to do a lot more of that. You’re right. You feel a bit silly when you’re sitting in front of a screen having to read out loud, but I can remember, in the past when I’ve had to sort of do public speaking and things I’ve written something down, unless you suddenly if unless you practice and read it a two or three times, and it gets to the stage where you think Yeah, that sounds more natural. You can It can sound so very stilted. So it’s a really good idea, read the stuff you’ve written down back to yourself and try to sort of imagine saying it or thinking as to how you’d have a conversation with somebody. And somehow if it doesn’t quite flow, you’ve failed to make the point. Some haven’t yet.
Judith Rafferty 20:18
Yeah, it’s the same with with the actual language you use to it, you know, I can remember, you know, been an honour, you know, an English undergrad, you know, when first coming out into the world of work. And I had this tendency to write them these most flourishing, elaborate, you know, setting syntheses. And I can remember distinctly remember when I first went into what’s copywriting, probably about 12 years or so ago, I worked for this editor, I was still doing it then. And he used to back back every piece of work at me, and he has to say you are frustrating the hell out of me, because your English is perfect your spelling and grammar, but your work is unreadable and tenancies are too long. So that’s another thing you know, once it went in there, and I clicked what he was talking about, always choppy sentences down to as few words as they can possibly be. To two words, if that I did a blog for a client yesterday and add two words, sentence. Authenticity matters, because we’re talking about visions and values and things are there in this particular piece. So take that long winded sentence and chop it down into for an example. Again, if you ever use a tool like Yoast, they will tell you in no uncertain terms, if you wrote your own read about your own readability facts it is it is getting a bit too much.
Stuart Webb 21:55
I put that down as yet another tool start looking at dude, if that is really fantastic. Thank you so much. I think if you haven’t got value from this, you really haven’t been listening. Have you? Let’s face it. That’s part of what this is about. So Judy, do you want to tell us where they can learn more about you’ve got I’ve got at the bottom there. I’ve got your LinkedIn, your LinkedIn profile, but I think they can. People can get more information about you.
Judith Rafferty 22:18
Connect with me. Yeah, me on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is my like my second home home on there. We work of course, that I’m always at contacts on LinkedIn. And also on my website, which is www dot frooition. ventures that’s as in fruits, io, n ventures, all one word.co.uk. And there is actually a nice little offer on there at the moment, a blog off offer. So buy one, get one free on blogs. So we’re anybody needing any help, just shoot me a line through. And you know, we’re not selling your soul to the devil happy to just have an initial little little chitchat about where you are, more importantly, where you’d like to be.
Stuart Webb 23:07
What a brilliant offer, I shall make sure that we tell the world about your free offer or your blog blog off. I like blog off, I shall write that one down as well blog off today. Thanks. Brilliant, thank you so much for your time, really appreciate it. I’m just going to very quickly put up the where you can subscribe to see more of where we do this sort of thing. If you’d like to see more of these videos and get notification when they’re coming out. Subscribe at TC a dot FYI, forward slash subscribe. That’s the complete approach for your information, forward slash subscribe, and you’ll always get notified then and when we’re going to be doing these in the future. And also any other interesting guests we’ve got coming up, but I know that we’re gonna get I’m gonna get on to john immediately after this. See if we can get him on this, Judy, thanks ever so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Hope you’ve had fun, and we’ll be speaking again soon. Bye. Thanks again. Buh bye.