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It’s Not Rocket Science! Five Questions Over Coffee with Yasmin Vorajee (ep. 18)
Who is Suraj?
Suraj runs Sole Legal. At Sole Legal we work with high growth Start-ups to review, draft and restructure their bespoke legal contracts. Our clients have or are focusing towards raising funding and need documents such as Shareholders Agreements and vesting schedules. We also provide guidance and General Counsel solutions for businesses that need our expertise in house but dont need it on a full time basis. Our clients range from start-ups that are an idea and a landing page, through to those backed by some of the biggest funds in the world.
Key Takeaways
- Do you need a contract or a shareholder agreement? clients come and ask for shareholder agreements, because they think that it’s an agreement between one shareholder and another. When it’s not, it’s actually an agreement between the shareholders and the business. So what they need is just a simple contract.
- Saving money by doing legal yourself nearly always costs more
- Your professional reputation will stay with you for a long time, so get it right from the start.
Valuable Free Resource or Action
Suraj is always available to talk to ensure you get the best advice for your situation – get details at www.sole-legal.com
Transcript
Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)
Stuart Webb 0:42
Welcome again to it’s not rocket science five questions over coffee I’m here with Suraj runner who’s a brilliant legal practitioner really good at helping young startup businesses get things like their terms and conditions, right and helping them put things like shareholder agreements, really important stuff to get that sort of thing ready, and helps solve so many problems in the long run. No, we got a really great conversation today, cuz Suraj is such an interesting person with so many interesting stories. So really looking forward to this with Suraj Welcome to the it’s not rocket science five questions over coffee. Thank you very much for having me. No problem. Thanks. So so just I’ve just sort of highlighted there a little bit Well, what are the sort of the challenges your clients face when sort of starting out your business and, and, and, and the things that they sort of try and set you set you was tasked to do?
Suraj Rana 1:41
On the startup side of things, a lot of it is just, it can be a mix, that’s really been great for me to be able to carve a niche here, because they often need the legal and the bit of sort of a business advice with it as well. And I’ve been able to really leverage that because being a startup myself, I know what they’re thinking and know what they’re going through. So I’m not just going into it with, right while the law or this is what you need, we can be really realistic about it and really pick the context. And in my opinion, it always should have been moldable. Because one she wants it doesn’t fit all. So it’s really speak to them. Okay, so where are we going with this? What do we really need a being cost effective, which is always a big one, and especially on the startup side of things. And if we can start off with something quite basic, like terms and conditions, it really works well, because I would love to get them off the line and get some get some cash flow in, let’s get something moving before we start spending a lot of money on contracts. And inevitably, they are expensive. So if we can sort of get some potential conditions everything sorted, get them moving a little bit, because then we need some fluidity, because in the first six to 12 months, everything can change. So we don’t want to swap contracts in place. Anyway. That is work. So a lot of them just want some some guidance, which I’m more than happy to give them sometimes it’s that just that little bit of clarity and like, Okay, can we just start off with this as thick as a foundation, and let’s build upon it. And it really works well for them.
Stuart Webb 3:16
Brilliant stuff. So what are the common mistakes people make when they’re trying to solve that problem with that, that sort of help that you just been talking about?
Suraj Rana 3:24
It’s the same problem, whether they’re a startup that is sort of looking to just get off the ground and take it easy and make moves. And some of the staff that I work with are raising capital, venture funding and things like that. And they all make the same mistake, which is wasting their own time. And it’s a huge mistake to make, because if you actually just talk to someone that knows what they’re talking about, you will save yourself days of time. And there’s there’s plenty of resources out there, you can do lots of reading, you can go on Google, but it’s so far out of context. And it’s written for every man and his dog is really not gonna it might give you a little few hints and tips. But there is something out there. It talks to people that know what they’re talking about role, so where you can explain and describe where you’re right where you want to go. Why you hear that what is key rather than just have a contract or have set up terms and conditions. And I’ve had clients come to me and ask for shareholder agreements, because they think that it’s an agreement between one shareholder and another. When it’s not, it’s actually an agreement between the shareholders and the business. So what they need is just a simple contract. But if you got a law firm and accurate shareholders agreement is one of the most intricate documents you can draft as as a contract lawyer. So inevitably, it’s not something that’s going to cost you a few 100 pounds. And I always say be careful what you ask for because if you go to some law firms in some traditional places that might not be as open and might not have as much time to sit down and talk to you. You asked for something like your shareholders green light to draft your one.
Stuart Webb 5:10
That can be Yeah, yeah. It’s funny, isn’t it? I often say that. Too often as business owners, we don’t, we don’t actually value our own time nearly enough. And as a result, we sort of sit there and think, Well, my time is free. Therefore, I can get more value out of doing this for myself, rather than going down the path, I always call it they go down the path of least assistance, you know, they go down that path will go, I can I can, I can save some money and it never ever does save money, you know you from from you helping people legally to people who are doing their own bookkeeping, because they think it’s a very simple job. And then they discover that if they’d only got somebody who really understood it, give them the right advice. they’ve saved themselves 1000s in tax, but because they didn’t go down that path of assistance, they end up costing themselves real money, because they wanted to save a few 100 pounds on time. It’s just, it’s just the wrong way to value it, isn’t it?
Suraj Rana 6:06
It really is. And it’s, it was hard for me as well, from an employee type mindset. That’s inevitably what you think, because you’re, well, I’m free, I’m having to pay other people to do something. But you then see the businesses that are starting just at the same time as you or or after you, and you see them, they’re taking a slightly different route, but it’s much faster. And the business is growing, everything’s looking a little bit, just even some things like websites, and you look at website and you go, that one’s a really nice one. That one, when I compare it to the really nice one isn’t actually that nice. And it’s just these small, subtle things that make a huge difference. But it’s just getting the people in the know how to do it. At any time, it might look good. But when you compare it to a really good one, is when you see the difference. And that’s
Stuart Webb 6:54
absolutely right. Absolutely. So what’s that valuable free action or valuable free resource that you can give to the audience that we’re talking to today that that sort of helps them sort of make that first step towards sort of getting that that assistance that they need for, for your case? legal services?
Suraj Rana 7:11
Yeah, it’s really important one for for my clients. And I’ve shocked it in a way that I know what they’re going to what they need, and that’s a consultation, and it’s a talk with me, it’s not going to be a leaflet, or a booklet or a PDF, because I’m just adding to the mess. In that situation, it’s a chat with me, because it’s just going to give them a lot of clarity, they can explain exactly what they need, and why I need to look at where they’re at and what conclusions they want from this, then I can work out the in between and what’s gonna work for them, what documents going to be best for what guidance we can take. And if it’s going to be a situation where right we’ve got a project, or we’ve got a single document, or it might be a situation where we say, you might need someone on retainer here. Because you can just come back to me every now and again. And I’ve specifically made it that way. Because that’s from the feedback and the research that I’ve done with my clients. That’s what they need. That’s that’s it rather than just another level. If not in context, they get to really talk to me and ask why. And sometimes for them with what I do is unfortunately uncommon. And so I’m always always available to talk and on the website, as it says below. walk in with me at any point, and get lots of clarity and get some focus on you need.
Stuart Webb 8:32
Yeah. Are you pretty, pretty available on things like LinkedIn as well. Suraj, I’ve noticed, you know, you’re posting all the time talking about your experiences, which have been really eye opening for me to sort of watch the sort of stuff that you’re talking about great stuff.
Suraj Rana 8:46
Yeah, it’s kind of it’s a weird, it’s kind of cathartic as well, in a way
for me, because I get to talk about it a little bit. And it’s as business on me sometimes. And in today’s world of COVID as well, you are stuck. And I am a solopreneur. So there’s not I don’t have a co founder that I can bounce ideas off or anything like that. We’ll just talk to have a little bit of a rant. And sometimes some of the stuff that I go through I will put on them and it’s not always it’s a bit personal mixed with with the business. I do talk about the business bureau talk about where I’m personally going through as a solopreneurs starting my own business as well, which works great for the startups they want. They want to work with other startups they can relate to it as well. And often I will get messages and they’ll say Oh, thanks so much for putting that poster up. I know exactly what you’re going through and it’s great that you’re able to do it so I’m always quite an I’m on there a talk on there as well have gotten the name of this slider on it so legal. So if anyone wants to talk to me on there they can as well and is interesting to follow is where I would like to say maybe I’m not that interesting, but I like to think I am
Stuart Webb 9:57
sorry if I left you there
Suraj Can you still hear me? Yes, you’re back. Now you’re back. I don’t know what happened there we will we will have to investigate that Well, what’s the sort of concept or or or programme that’s really sort of be most impactful in your experience? Is it that sort of use of LinkedIn and social media? Yeah, it’s
Suraj Rana 10:18
been great for me actually, in many respects. When I was very naive when I first started, I’ve had a LinkedIn for a long time. From when I was at university, actually, and inevitably, it was always a well, it’s just the way you sort of put your CV, you talk about what you did. But it’s becoming much, much more than that now. And if you just got, if you’ve not been on to it for a while, go and check it out and see what he did. It’s a very different place. And he is, I’m lucky to speak to a lot of people that do very, very well on LinkedIn. And so inevitably talk to people that work at LinkedIn. And I hear they’re now looking to move it away from just where you put your CV, but what it’s just a professional networking place, you talk about some of the stuff that you going through professionally, it’s worked really well in there, I’m able to, I’ve made connections with other lawyers around the world, which is quite important for me. I, because I’m, although I niche in the product side of things, I’m very general, in the way I work on the legal side of things. So it’s good to have people that are very niche in their own areas, such as fraud and things like that. And I want centre, even clients over in the states that have said, we’re looking to set up business, maybe somewhere in the Caribbean, for example. And it was great, because they’re right, one of my good friends actually is a lawyer. So if you want to do that, we can set that up, it’s been really, really, really good for me in that respect, I, I I getting it, you’ve got to be strategic in the way they use it. So if I speaking to someone that is a lead, they might actually be a client or they might not be or they might not be ready or anything like that, by then make sure I try not them on LinkedIn, because I’m not in a position where I’m churning out newsletters and things like that to keep in contact with people. So I use my LinkedIn to keep in contact. So I might even just throw something out there on holiday weekend or online to say I’m working with this client, or I’m doing this, I’m doing that. It’s just that subtle reminder for them that I exist, and what I do. And then what happened is they will just drop me, because they’ve just seen me it staying in the forefront of their mind. It’s worked for me in both ways in that so it’s grateful for networking. And it’s also great for getting potential leads. Or it’s just keeping you in the potential leads mind. So they’ve
Stuart Webb 12:53
good contact, good concepts, right. So we come to my what I always turn that I get out of jail free card, which is my question, which is what’s the question I should have asked you, which I haven’t. I know, you’ve got a bank of stories. So we could spend hours on these. But you know, what’s that question you would have liked me to ask you, which I haven’t yet done. And it’s whether it’s a it’s a question of
Suraj Rana 13:17
some of the best lessons you’ve learned, or the one lesson that you still use today that you learned very early on. And it was one of the reasons why we really wanted to do this. And I think it was the end. Like I said, I’ve got a number of these lessons. And as entrepreneurs and as humans, we’re always looking to learn more lessons. What can I take from this, I need to do this to to learn this lesson. I haven’t learned this lesson yet. And I was surprised and I looked back at the lessons or some of the things that I had done even in my school days, and the lessons that I can still take now and still use. And maybe it’s because of the type of person I was. So I’ll give you the example a I when I was about 1516. And I was always quite a big fan of watches and watch brands. So and I was a stickler for time. And very annoyingly by friends, by the way, because I wanted to be there on the minute and I always wanted to be less than a few minutes early on time has always been late for me even from that age. And I used to get rid for it all the time.
Stuart Webb 14:25
So I would wear a watch.
Suraj Rana 14:26
This was the days when you didn’t have very fancy phones. And of course you wouldn’t be hung around with them. It wasn’t commonplace. And with the school I went to it was kind of frowned upon to have them on you all the time anyway. So I would always wear this watch. And it’s quite a nice watch and invite for a lot of money. I knew I was just going to use it in school. And I found out a couple of people would look at this watch. That’s quite nice watch it Where did you get that from? Etc, etc. I found a niche and I thought Wow, this is great because I can sell some of these watches. And I did and I’d I’ve got them cheaply from a wholesaler and I would sell them for I remember i’d sold them for basically patent for about 510 and sell them for 10. Because I didn’t want to carry change around in my pocket in school. So I national round number, but you can imagine for five pounds of weight, great quality. So within a few weeks, things started to go wrong with these watches and straps are coming loose, and they wouldn’t have been the time properly and whatnot. And it was a great lesson for me because I can never sell watches to that market again. Or at least I’d have to wait until the next academic year. And by the time everyone’s forgotten about it. But also, if that that side, business type, also my personal brand, because I was raped then for being that guy that was selling the dodgy watches that kept breaking, it was really interesting lesson learn, because it affects both sides, the personal brand, and the business business had to close down basically after a few weeks, because just wasn’t happening. And it was really important. And what I thought about it was that next time, I don’t want to stop selling watches, because I still have a passion for them, but not run by them for a fiver and sell them brief I do inevitably I need to learn that that’s been going to be the the cheap watches break a lot. And that’s going to be linked to my parents around as well. And that’s not what I wanted. So it really I don’t know, I understand a lot of other people weren’t like that. But you’d be surprised if you look back and you think at some of those things that you did those lessons in adult life. And in business life as well. Don’t always look to learn more, think about what you already know and leverage that then move forward.
Stuart Webb 16:35
You know, school is such an important time for for when we learn not only what we’re doing sort of academically, but it sets us up for those those early years of our career when we really start to accelerate our businesses, doesn’t it. And that’s a really interesting story that you learned very early, the value of an item but also the value of customer service that you didn’t want to disappoint your customers, you had a particular point that you were trying to do, which is not only sell the watch, but make the customer happy, and that the damage of the customer service experience was doing to your business and your personal brand was actually as painful as as anything. So that’s a really interesting lesson. I think it’s an insight into the way in which you deal with your business now.
Suraj Rana 17:26
Yeah, and it isn’t at the time, I didn’t really understand what I was doing or why. And it’s only now that we talked about the customer service side of things, and the way that I want to how I want to provide that service, that’s a good service, not just the cheap one that is readily available for everyone. So if that’s why I was saying think back because you’re in a very different mindset. 20 years old, but the lesson can still be learned. And yes, I still follow that through. And it’s very much my personal brand that I am a big part of so legal at this stage. It is me I’m a I am a I’m a bit obsessed with it if I’m honest, but you need to be a little bit obsessed with it. You also need to see the long term side of things don’t keep thinking about making 10 pound. What about in 10 years? Where can it go in there always dream big. And it was thankfully, I was always in contact with some great people that taught me that I always needed to unknowingly I had one Chairman that would no matter how big I was dreaming, he would always tell me it’s too small of a dream, to dream even bigger. So always just just talk to these people, there’s always a lesson to be learned. Take a little bit of wisdom from everyone that you talk to you because they’ve all got a little bit of it. That’s brilliant.
Stuart Webb 18:39
So as I said, fantastic lesson I learned I’m gonna have to finish it on that because I don’t think anything you’d say after that would actually sort of have as big impact as that one which is let’s always take that lesson of thinking that little bit bigger stream that little bit bigger because you never know, you might actually sort of be as big as that deteriorates, it’s been a brilliant conversation. I’ve really enjoyed it. I just want to point out if you would be interested in hearing more about what’s going on on this channel and subscribing and hearing more go to this website which is tcaa dot FYI, forward slash subscribe that’s tcaa dot FYI, forward slashes guy go across the screen at the moment Suraj it’s been brilliant having you on I really appreciated some of those some of those lessons. It’s gonna remind me again to think big, dream big and dream just a little bit bigger because no matter how big you dream, you still haven’t quite reached the top. I love it. Thank you so much for being on. Thank you very much for your time, no problem and we’ll see you all again soon.